alcibiades i-第7部分

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SOCRATES：　　And　having　acknowledged　that　the　just　is　the　same　as　the

expedient；　are　you　not　（let　me　ask）　prepared　to　ridicule　any　one　who；

pretending　to　understand　the　principles　of　justice　and　injustice；　gets　up

to　advise　the　noble　Athenians　or　the　ignoble　Peparethians；　that　the　just

may　be　the　evil？



ALCIBIADES：　　I　solemnly　declare；　Socrates；　that　I　do　not　know　what　I　am

saying。　　Verily；　I　am　in　a　strange　state；　for　when　you　put　questions　to　me

I　am　of　different　minds　in　successive　instants。



SOCRATES：　　And　are　you　not　aware　of　the　nature　of　this　perplexity；　my

friend？



ALCIBIADES：　　Indeed　I　am　not。



SOCRATES：　　Do　you　suppose　that　if　some　one　were　to　ask　you　whether　you　have

two　eyes　or　three；　or　two　hands　or　four；　or　anything　of　that　sort；　you

would　then　be　of　different　minds　in　successive　instants？



ALCIBIADES：　　I　begin　to　distrust　myself；　but　still　I　do　not　suppose　that　I

should。



SOCRATES：　　You　would　feel　no　doubt；　and　for　this　reasonbecause　you　would

know？



ALCIBIADES：　　I　suppose　so。



SOCRATES：　　And　the　reason　why　you　involuntarily　contradict　yourself　is

clearly　that　you　are　ignorant？



ALCIBIADES：　　Very　likely。



SOCRATES：　　And　if　you　are　perplexed　in　answering　about　just　and　unjust；

honourable　and　dishonourable；　good　and　evil；　expedient　and　inexpedient；　the

reason　is　that　you　are　ignorant　of　them；　and　therefore　in　perplexity。　　Is

not　that　clear？



ALCIBIADES：　　I　agree。



SOCRATES：　　But　is　this　always　the　case；　and　is　a　man　necessarily　perplexed

about　that　of　which　he　has　no　knowledge？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly　he　is。



SOCRATES：　　And　do　you　know　how　to　ascend　into　heaven？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly　not。



SOCRATES：　　And　in　this　case；　too；　is　your　judgment　perplexed？



ALCIBIADES：　　No。



SOCRATES：　　Do　you　see　the　reason　why；　or　shall　I　tell　you？



ALCIBIADES：　　Tell　me。



SOCRATES：　　The　reason　is；　that　you　not　only　do　not　know；　my　friend；　but　you

do　not　think　that　you　know。



ALCIBIADES：　　There　again；　what　do　you　mean？



SOCRATES：　　Ask　yourself；　are　you　in　any　perplexity　about　things　of　which

you　are　ignorant？　　You　know；　for　example；　that　you　know　nothing　about　the

preparation　of　food。



ALCIBIADES：　　Very　true。



SOCRATES：　　And　do　you　think　and　perplex　yourself　about　the　preparation　of

food：　　or　do　you　leave　that　to　some　one　who　understands　the　art？



ALCIBIADES：　　The　latter。



SOCRATES：　　Or　if　you　were　on　a　voyage；　would　you　bewilder　yourself　by

considering　whether　the　rudder　is　to　be　drawn　inwards　or　outwards；　or　do

you　leave　that　to　the　pilot；　and　do　nothing？



ALCIBIADES：　　It　would　be　the　concern　of　the　pilot。



SOCRATES：　　Then　you　are　not　perplexed　about　what　you　do　not　know；　if　you

know　that　you　do　not　know　it？



ALCIBIADES：　　I　imagine　not。



SOCRATES：　　Do　you　not　see；　then；　that　mistakes　in　life　and　practice　are

likewise　to　be　attributed　to　the　ignorance　which　has　conceit　of　knowledge？



ALCIBIADES：　　Once　more；　what　do　you　mean？



SOCRATES：　　I　suppose　that　we　begin　to　act　when　we　think　that　we　know　what

we　are　doing？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　But　when　people　think　that　they　do　not　know；　they　entrust　their

business　to　others？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　so　there　is　a　class　of　ignorant　persons　who　do　not　make

mistakes　in　life；　because　they　trust　others　about　things　of　which　they　are

ignorant？



ALCIBIADES：　　True。



SOCRATES：　　Who；　then；　are　the　persons　who　make　mistakes？　　They　cannot；　of

course；　be　those　who　know？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly　not。



SOCRATES：　　But　if　neither　those　who　know；　nor　those　who　know　that　they　do

not　know；　make　mistakes；　there　remain　those　only　who　do　not　know　and　think

that　they　know。



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes；　only　those。



SOCRATES：　　Then　this　is　ignorance　of　the　disgraceful　sort　which　is

mischievous？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　most　mischievous　and　most　disgraceful　when　having　to　do　with

the　greatest　matters？



ALCIBIADES：　　By　far。



SOCRATES：　　And　can　there　be　any　matters　greater　than　the　just；　the

honourable；　the　good；　and　the　expedient？



ALCIBIADES：　　There　cannot　be。



SOCRATES：　　And　these；　as　you　were　saying；　are　what　perplex　you？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　But　if　you　are　perplexed；　then；　as　the　previous　argument　has

shown；　you　are　not　only　ignorant　of　the　greatest　matters；　but　being

ignorant　you　fancy　that　you　know　them？



ALCIBIADES：　　I　fear　that　you　are　right。



SOCRATES：　　And　now　see　what　has　happened　to　you；　Alcibiades！　　I　hardly　like

to　speak　of　your　evil　case；　but　as　we　are　alone　I　will：　　My　good　friend；

you　are　wedded　to　ignorance　of　the　most　disgraceful　kind；　and　of　this　you

are　convicted；　not　by　me；　but　out　of　your　own　mouth　and　by　your　own

argument；　wherefore　also　you　rush　into　politics　before　you　are　educated。　

Neither　is　your　case　to　be　deemed　singular。　　For　I　might　say　the　same　of

almost　all　our　statesmen；　with　the　exception；　perhaps　of　your　guardian；

Pericles。



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes；　Socrates；　and　Pericles　is　said　not　to　have　got　his　wisdom

by　the　light　of　nature；　but　to　have　associated　with　several　of　the

philosophers；　with　Pythocleides；　for　example；　and　with　Anaxagoras；　and　now

in　advanced　life　with　Damon；　in　the　hope　of　gaining　wisdom。



SOCRATES：　　Very　good；　but　did　you　ever　know　a　man　wise　in　anything　who　was

unable　to　impart　his　particular　wisdom？　　For　example；　he　who　taught　you

letters　was　not　only　wise；　but　he　made　you　and　any　others　whom　he　liked

wise。



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　you；　whom　he　taught；　can　do　the　same？



ALCIBIADES：　　True。



SOCRATES：　　And　in　like　manner　the　harper　and　gymnastic…master？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly。



SOCRATES：　　When　a　person　is　enabled　to　impart　knowledge　to　another；　he

thereby　gives　an　excellent　proof　of　his　own　understanding　of　any　matter。



ALCIBIADES：　　I　agree。



SOCRATES：　　Well；　and　did　Pericles　make　any　one　wise；　did　he　begin　by　making

his　sons　wise？



ALCIBIADES：　　But；　Socrates；　if　the　two　sons　of　Pericles　were　simpletons；

what　has　that　to　do　with　the　matter？



SOCRATES：　　Well；　but　did　he　make　your　brother；　Cleinias；　wise？



ALCIBIADES：　　Cleinias　is　a　madman；　there　is　no　use　in　talking　of　him。



SOCRATES：　　But　if　Cleinias　is　a　madman　and　the　two　sons　of　Pericles　were

simpletons；　what　reason　can　be　given　why　he　neglects　you；　and　lets　you　be

as　you　are？



ALCIBIADES：　　I　believe　that　I　am　to　blame　for　not　listening　to　him。



SOCRATES：　　But　did　you　ever　hear　of　any　other　Athenian　or　foreigner；　bond

or　free；　who　was　deemed　to　have　grown　wiser　in　the　society　of　Pericles；as

I　might　cite　Pythodorus；　the　son　of　Isolochus；　and　Callias；　the　son　of

Calliades；　who　have　grown　wiser　in　the　society　of　Zeno；　for　which　privilege

they　have　each　of　them　paid　him　the　sum　of　a　hundred　minae　（about　406

pounds　sterling）　to　the　increase　of　their　wisdom　and　fame。



ALCIBIADES：　　I　certainly　never　did　hear　of　any　one。



SOCRATES：　　Well；　and　in　reference　to　your　own　case；　do　you　mean　to　remain

as　you　are；　or　will　you　take　some　pains　about　yourself？



ALCIBIADES：　　With　your　aid；　Socrates；　I　will。　　And　indeed；　when　I　hear　you

speak；　the　truth　of　what　you　are　saying　strikes　home　to　me；　and　I　agree

with　you；　for　our　statesmen；　all　but　a　few；　do　appear　to　be　quite

uneducated。



SOCRATES：　　What　is　the　inference？



ALCIBIADES：　　Why；　that　if　they　were　educated　they　would　be　trained

athletes；　and　he　who　means　to　rival　them　ought　to　have　knowledge　and


experience　when　he　attacks　them；　but　now；　as　they　have　become　politicians

without　any　special　training；　why　should　I　have　the　trouble　of　learning　and

practising？　　For　I　know　well　that　by　the　light　of　nature　I　shall　get　the

better　of　them。



SOCRATES：　　My　dear　friend；　what　a　sentiment！　　And　how　unworthy　of　your

noble　form　and　your　high　estate！



ALCIBIADES：　　What　do　you　mean；　Socrates；　why　do　you　say　so？



SOCRATES：　　I　am　grieved　when　I　think　of　our　mutual　love。



ALCIBIADES：　　At　what？



SOCRATES：　　At　your　fancying　that　the　contest　on　which　you　are　entering　is

with　people　here。



ALCIBIADES：　　Why；　what　others　are　there？



SOCRATES：　　Is　that　a　question　which　a　magnanimous　soul　should　ask？



ALCIBIADES：　　Do　you　mean　to　say　that　the　contest　is　not　with　these？



SOCRATES：　　And　suppose　that　you　were　going　to　steer　a　ship　into　action；

would　you　only　aim　at　being　the　best　pilot　on　board？　　Would　you　not；　while

acknowledging　that　you　must　possess　this　degree　of　excellence；　rather　look

to　your　antagonists；　and　not；　as　you　are　now　doing；　to　your　fellow

combatants？　　You　ought　to　be　so　far　above　these　latter；　that　they　will　not

even　dare　to　be　your　rivals；　and；　being　regarded　by　you　as　inferiors；　will

do　battle　for　you　against　the　enemy；　this　is　the　kind　of　superiority　which

you　must　establish　over　them；　if　you　mean　to　accomplish　any　noble　action

really　worthy　of　yourself　and　of　the　state。



ALCIBIADES：　　That　would　certainly　be　my　aim。



SOCRATES：　　Verily；　then；　you　have　good　reason　to　be　satisfied；　if　you　are

better　than　the　soldiers；　and　you　need　not；　when　you　are　their　superior　and

have　your　thoughts　and　actions　fixed　upon　them；　look　away　to　the　generals

of　the　enemy。



ALCIBIADES：　　Of　whom　are　you　speaking；　Socrates？



SOCRATES：　　Why；　you　surely　know　that　our　city　goes　to　war　now　and　then　with

the　Lacedaemonians　and　with　the　great　king？



ALCIBIADES：　　True　enough。



SOCRATES：　　And　if　you　meant　to　be　the　ruler　of　this　city；　would　you　not　be

right　in　considering　that　the　Lacedaemonian　and　Persian　king　were　your　true

rivals？



ALCIBIADES：　　I　believe　that　you　are　right。



SOCRATES：　　Oh　no；　my　friend；　I　am　quite　wrong；　and　I　think　that　you　ought

rather　to　turn　your　attention　to　Midias　the　quail…breeder　and　others　like

him；　who　manage　our　politics；　in　whom；　as　the　women　would　remark；　you　may

still　see　the　slave