eryxias-第2部分

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I　thought　that　what　Eryxias　was　saying　had　some　weight；　and　I　replied；

Would　the　wise　man　really　suffer　in　this　way；　if　he　were　so　ill…provided；

whereas　if　he　had　the　house　of　Polytion；　and　the　house　were　full　of　gold

and　silver；　he　would　lack　nothing？



ERYXIAS：　　Yes；　for　then　he　might　dispose　of　his　property　and　obtain　in

exchange　what　he　needed；　or　he　might　sell　it　for　money　with　which　he　could

supply　his　wants　and　in　a　moment　procure　abundance　of　everything。



SOCRATES：　　True；　if　he　could　find　some　one　who　preferred　such　a　house　to

the　wisdom　of　Nestor。　　But　if　there　are　persons　who　set　great　store　by

wisdom　like　Nestor's　and　the　advantages　accruing　from　it；　to　sell　these；　if

he　were　so　disposed；　would　be　easier　still。　　Or　is　a　house　a　most　useful

and　necessary　possession；　and　does　it　make　a　great　difference　in　the

comfort　of　life　to　have　a　mansion　like　Polytion's　instead　of　living　in　a

shabby　little　cottage；　whereas　wisdom　is　of　small　use　and　it　is　of　no

importance　whether　a　man　is　wise　or　ignorant　about　the　highest　matters？　　Or

is　wisdom　despised　of　men　and　can　find　no　buyers；　although　cypress　wood　and

marble　of　Pentelicus　are　eagerly　bought　by　numerous　purchasers？　　Surely　the

prudent　pilot　or　the　skilful　physician；　or　the　artist　of　any　kind　who　is

proficient　in　his　art；　is　more　worth　than　the　things　which　are　especially

reckoned　among　riches；　and　he　who　can　advise　well　and　prudently　for　himself

and　others　is　able　also　to　sell　the　product　of　his　art；　if　he　so　desire。



Eryxias　looked　askance；　as　if　he　had　received　some　unfair　treatment；　and

said；　I　believe；　Socrates；　that　if　you　were　forced　to　speak　the　truth；　you

would　declare　that　you　were　richer　than　Callias　the　son　of　Hipponicus。　　And

yet；　although　you　claimed　to　be　wiser　about　things　of　real　importance；　you

would　not　any　the　more　be　richer　than　he。



I　dare　say；　Eryxias；　I　said；　that　you　may　regard　these　arguments　of　ours　as

a　kind　of　game；　you　think　that　they　have　no　relation　to　facts；　but　are　like

the　pieces　in　the　game　of　draughts　which　the　player　can　move　in　such　a　way

that　his　opponents　are　unable　to　make　any　countermove。　　（Compare　Republic。）　

And　perhaps；　too；　as　regards　riches　you　are　of　opinion　that　while　facts

remain　the　same；　there　are　arguments；　no　matter　whether　true　or　false；

which　enable　the　user　of　them　to　prove　that　the　wisest　and　the　richest　are

one　and　the　same；　although　he　is　in　the　wrong　and　his　opponents　are　in　the

right。　　There　would　be　nothing　strange　in　this；　it　would　be　as　if　two

persons　were　to　dispute　about　letters；　one　declaring　that　the　word　Socrates

began　with　an　S；　the　other　that　it　began　with　an　A；　and　the　latter　could

gain　the　victory　over　the　former。



Eryxias　glanced　at　the　audience；　laughing　and　blushing　at　once；　as　if　he

had　had　nothing　to　do　with　what　had　just　been　said；　and　replied；No；

indeed；　Socrates；　I　never　supposed　that　our　arguments　should　be　of　a　kind

which　would　never　convince　any　one　of　those　here　present　or　be　of　advantage

to　them。　　For　what　man　of　sense　could　ever　be　persuaded　that　the　wisest　and

the　richest　are　the　same？　　The　truth　is　that　we　are　discussing　the　subject

of　riches；　and　my　notion　is　that　we　should　argue　respecting　the　honest　and

dishonest　means　of　acquiring　them；　and；　generally；　whether　they　are　a　good

thing　or　a　bad。



Very　good；　I　said；　and　I　am　obliged　to　you　for　the　hint：　　in　future　we　will

be　more　careful。　　But　why　do　not　you　yourself；　as　you　introduced　the

argument；　and　do　not　think　that　the　former　discussion　touched　the　point　at

issue；　tell　us　whether　you　consider　riches　to　be　a　good　or　an　evil？



I　am　of　opinion；　he　said；　that　they　are　a　good。　　He　was　about　to　add

something　more；　when　Critias　interrupted　him：Do　you　really　suppose　so；

Eryxias？



Certainly；　replied　Eryxias；　I　should　be　mad　if　I　did　not：　　and　I　do　not

fancy　that　you　would　find　any　one　else　of　a　contrary　opinion。



And　I；　retorted　Critias；　should　say　that　there　is　no　one　whom　I　could　not

compel　to　admit　that　riches　are　bad　for　some　men。　　But　surely；　if　they　were

a　good；　they　could　not　appear　bad　for　any　one？



Here　I　interposed　and　said　to　them：　　If　you　two　were　having　an　argument

about　equitation　and　what　was　the　best　way　of　riding；　supposing　that　I　knew

the　art　myself；　I　should　try　to　bring　you　to　an　agreement。　　For　I　should　be

ashamed　if　I　were　present　and　did　not　do　what　I　could　to　prevent　your

difference。　　And　I　should　do　the　same　if　you　were　quarrelling　about　any

other　art　and　were　likely；　unless　you　agreed　on　the　point　in　dispute；　to

part　as　enemies　instead　of　as　friends。　　But　now；　when　we　are　contending

about　a　thing　of　which　the　usefulness　continues　during　the　whole　of　life；

and　it　makes　an　enormous　difference　whether　we　are　to　regard　it　as

beneficial　or　not；a　thing；　too；　which　is　esteemed　of　the　highest

importance　by　the　Hellenes：（for　parents；　as　soon　as　their　children　are；

as　they　think；　come　to　years　of　discretion；　urge　them　to　consider　how

wealth　may　be　acquired；　since　by　riches　the　value　of　a　man　is　judged）：

When；　I　say；　we　are　thus　in　earnest；　and　you；　who　agree　in　other　respects；

fall　to　disputing　about　a　matter　of　such　moment；　that　is；　about　wealth；　and

not　merely　whether　it　is　black　or　white；　light　or　heavy；　but　whether　it　is

a　good　or　an　evil；　whereby；　although　you　are　now　the　dearest　of　friends　and

kinsmen；　the　most　bitter　hatred　may　arise　betwixt　you；　I　must　hinder　your

dissension　to　the　best　of　my　power。　　If　I　could；　I　would　tell　you　the

truth；　and　so　put　an　end　to　the　dispute；　but　as　I　cannot　do　this；　and　each

of　you　supposes　that　you　can　bring　the　other　to　an　agreement；　I　am

prepared；　as　far　as　my　capacity　admits；　to　help　you　in　solving　the

question。　　Please；　therefore；　Critias；　try　to　make　us　accept　the　doctrines

which　you　yourself　entertain。



CRITIAS：　　I　should　like　to　follow　up　the　argument；　and　will　ask　Eryxias

whether　he　thinks　that　there　are　just　and　unjust　men？



ERYXIAS：　　Most　decidedly。



CRITIAS：　　And　does　injustice　seem　to　you　an　evil　or　a　good？



ERYXIAS：　　An　evil。



CRITIAS：　　Do　you　consider　that　he　who　bribes　his　neighbour's　wife　and

commits　adultery　with　her；　acts　justly　or　unjustly；　and　this　although　both

the　state　and　the　laws　forbid？



ERYXIAS：　　Unjustly。



CRITIAS：　　And　if　the　wicked　man　has　wealth　and　is　willing　to　spend　it；　he

will　carry　out　his　evil　purposes？　whereas　he　who　is　short　of　means　cannot

do　what　he　fain　would；　and　therefore　does　not　sin？　　In　such　a　case；　surely；

it　is　better　that　a　person　should　not　be　wealthy；　if　his　poverty　prevents

the　accomplishment　of　his　desires；　and　his　desires　are　evil？　　Or；　again；

should　you　call　sickness　a　good　or　an　evil？



ERYXIAS：　　An　evil。



CRITIAS：　　Well；　and　do　you　think　that　some　men　are　intemperate？



ERYXIAS：　　Yes。



CRITIAS：　　Then；　if　it　is　better　for　his　health　that　the　intemperate　man

should　refrain　from　meat　and　drink　and　other　pleasant　things；　but　he　cannot

owing　to　his　intemperance；　will　it　not　also　be　better　that　he　should　be　too

poor　to　gratify　his　lust　rather　than　that　he　should　have　a　superabundance

of　means？　　For　thus　he　will　not　be　able　to　sin；　although　he　desire　never　so

much。



Critias　appeared　to　be　arguing　so　admirably　that　Eryxias；　if　he　had　not

been　ashamed　of　the　bystanders；　would　probably　have　got　up　and　struck　him。　

For　he　thought　that　he　had　been　robbed　of　a　great　possession　when　it　became

obvious　to　him　that　he　had　been　wrong　in　his　former　opinion　about　wealth。　

I　observed　his　vexation；　and　feared　that　they　would　proceed　to　abuse　and

quarrelling：　　so　I　said；I　heard　that　very　argument　used　in　the　Lyceum

yesterday　by　a　wise　man；　Prodicus　of　Ceos；　but　the　audience　thought　that　he

was　talking　mere　nonsense；　and　no　one　could　be　persuaded　that　he　was

speaking　the　truth。　　And　when　at　last　a　certain　talkative　young　gentleman

came　in；　and；　taking　his　seat；　began　to　laugh　and　jeer　at　Prodicus；

tormenting　him　and　demanding　an　explanation　of　his　argument；　he　gained　the

ear　of　the　audience　far　more　than　Prodicus。



Can　you　repeat　the　discourse　to　us？　　Said　Erasistratus。



SOCRATES：　　If　I　can　only　remember　it；　I　will。　　The　youth　began　by　asking

Prodicus；　In　what　way　did　he　think　that　riches　were　a　good　and　in　what　an

evil？　　Prodicus　answered；　as　you　did　just　now；　that　they　were　a　good　to

good　men　and　to　those　who　knew　in　what　way　they　should　be　employed；　while

to　the　bad　and　the　ignorant　they　were　an　evil。　　The　same　is　true；　he　went

on　to　say；　of　all　other　things；　men　make　them　to　be　what　they　are

themselves。　　The　saying　of　Archilochus　is　true：



'Men's　thoughts　correspond　to　the　things　which　they　meet　with。'



Well；　then；　replied　the　youth；　if　any　one　makes　me　wise　in　that　wisdom

whereby　good　men　become　wise；　he　must　also　make　everything　else　good　to　me。

Not　that　he　concerns　himself　at　all　with　these　other　things；　but　he　has

converted　my　ignorance　into　wisdom。　　If；　for　example；　a　person　teach　me

grammar　or　music；　he　will　at　the　same　time　teach　me　all　that　relates　to

grammar　or　music；　and　so　when　he　makes　me　good；　he　makes　things　good　to　me。



Prodicus　did　not　altogether　agree：　　still　he　consented　to　what　was　said。



And　do　you　think；　said　the　youth；　that　doing　good　things　is　like　building　a

house；the　work　of　human　agency；　or　do　things　remain　what　they　were　at

first；　good　or　bad；　for　all　time？



Prodicus　began　to　suspect；　I　fancy；　the　direction　which　the　argument　was

likely　to　take；　and　did　not　wish　to　be　put　down　by　a　mere　stripling　before

all　those　present：（if　they　two　had　been　alone；　he　would　not　have

minded）：so　he　answered；　cleverly　enough：　　I　think　that　doing　good　things

is　a　work　of　human　agency。



And　is　virtue　in　your　opinion；　Prodicus；　innate　or　acquired　by　instruction？



The　latter；　said　Prodicus。



Then　you　would　consider　him　a　simpleton　who　supposed　that　he　could　obtain

by　praying　to　the　Gods　the　knowledge　of　grammar　or　music　or　any　other